My talented friend patty (http://www.pattysgallery.com/wordpress/ and http://www.pattysgallery.com/), who has always considered herself a bottom, posed this question:
To: Doc
From: patty
Subject: Topping a Top as a Bottom Who Wants to Stay a Bottom
Any advice to offer? I know lots of bottoms who are curious and lots of tops who are too.
My friend would like to try out being spanked. I'm curious but concerned also. I think I could spank, but fear disrupting the Top/bottom balance by crossing that line. I know you've charted that territory already. Any advice?
My response
I love the subject line— Topping a Top as a Bottom Who Wants to Stay a Bottom
In case its meaning isn't clear, it can be rephrased as follows: patty is a bottom, and she wants to stay a bottom, but she has a question about what would happen if she topped her top, the man that usually spanks her. In other words, playing with role reversal. Would it harm their relationship?
This is a common question; in fact it's amazing how often a top (usually but not always a man) who would "never dream" of switching, who is a "top to the core," will one day admit (to his partner and, with more difficulty, to himself) that the idea of being spanked has a distinct appeal. Here, I'll assume the top is a male, since that's the case with patty's friend, but this can all apply to other relationships between the genders.
The key is the difference between the Top/bottom relationship and the Dom/sub dynamic. Doing the spanking and doing the dominating are related but distinct:
The top does the spanking (and may or may not be a dom); the bottom gets spanked (and may or may not be a sub).
The dom is in charge, if there's a dom in the relationship at all, and if so, the sub is the one who gets ordered around.
In some couples the top is also the dom, and he both spanks his partner and, well, acts all domly. Other couples love spankings but find the dom/sub relationship irrelevant. There's no right or wrong; it's all good.
Switching roles isn't likely to cause difficulty if the couple doesn't use the dom/sub dynamic. If it turns out that both of them enjoy the other end of the hairbrush more than they expected, they can switch regularly or even permanently change roles.
If dominance and submission are part of their relationship, they can switch roles and finesse the role problem, at least for a while. The idea is that he, as the dom, is ordering her, the sub, to spank him. She, in turn, is duty-bound to do as he commands; in this case it involves her taking him over her lap and spanking him, presumably for as hard and as long as he orders.
There is a certain amount of mental gymnastics in this scenario, which can get more twisted. What if he instructs her to scold him and tell him that she is spanking him because he's been naughty? If he orders her to do that, and she does, is he still the dom? Even if she only spanks him, how often can they do that without changing their dynamic? If they enjoy the switch in roles, and she ends up spanking him regularly, it's easy to see how it could change their dom/sub dynamic as well.
In short, if the dom/sub relationship is part of your relationship, switching spanking roles may alter your dom/sub roles as well.
So what can I say about role reversals like this, with their potential to change the dynamic between the couple in ways that could be either enjoyable or disappointing?
Talk about it. Learn what you're each thinking about, what you're hoping to get from the role reversal, and what you're afraid of. In these conversations you will learn not only about your partner's wishes, but you will learn more about your own as well, for in expressing our own thoughts we understand them better.
There is risk to everything, but the opportunities for greater understanding and more intimacy, not to mention the sheer pleasure of trying out new experiences, should encourage the cautious to go ahead and give it a try. Get out of that rut and have fun.
--Doc
Sarah, who knows as much about topping as any woman alive and has spanked many people of both sexes, was kind enough to share her thoughts on this topic.
Dear Doc,
These thoughts about topping a top come from personal experience, so I'll speak from a female's viewpoint about a male top bottoming to a woman.
Some men who spank their wives or girlfriends have visited my lap because they were concerned about upsetting the dynamics of their relationship. Keep in mind that a male top (there are exceptions!) may have a more sensitive bottom than the woman he spanks. Some guys were concerned about appearing wimpy if they couldn't take as hard a spanking as they dished out. One guy was concerned that his partner wouldn't see him as a big, strong masculine man once he'd been bare-bottomed over her lap, especially if he cried, but my opinion is that it takes a lot of courage for a man to ask for a spanking and submit to a woman.
Another thing I hear is that a man has tried it with his partner, but she couldn't, or wouldn't, physically spank him hard enough, so it's good to have a discussion about intensity. Regardless if he wants to try different implements he's never felt before or he's never been spanked or he's a seasoned bottom, and you need some kind of a benchmark to gauge the intensity, it might be fun to have a "training" session before you schedule his spanking. Tell him he needs to be bare-bottomed for this, so you can watch his skin integrity, and that he will be required to answer you, or you'll continue spanking harder until he does. Instruct him to tell you, on a scale of one to ten, with "one" being barely felt and "ten" being more than he can stand, the intensity of the smacks of your hand as you spank progressively harder, or any other implement you agree to try. Once he's warmed up, you can usually go up a couple of notches, but it will give you something to go on. One guy's "two" is another guy's "ten"! It will also give you an idea about how to build the spanking...make him tell you if he'd like you to start at a two and progress to a six, or start at six and move quickly to an eight, or begin and end at ten!
Another topic to discuss in advance is the kind of spanking he wants. If he doesn't know what kind of spanking he wants, and if it's your first time spanking him, it's usually best to start out with a warmup and progressively build up. If he doesn't know what you mean, ask him if he thinks of spanking as predominantly erotic, or disciplinary, or stress-relieving. The answer to that question will be your guide for giving him a satisfying experience.
Sometimes guys can be quite opinionated about what they'd like their lady top to wear, from jeans to a dress to lingerie. If you are interested in pleasing him, it's one more thing you can do.
If you're spanking him, or just dominating him in general, any discussion should take place well in advance. When the time comes, you're in charge, and he'll expect you to remain in control. Any commands are best given when you're not spanking, so he can hear you and pay attention.
I've mentored several women on topping and spanking techniques, and they still consider themselves predominantly bottoms (although some now identify themselves as switches!), but none have "turned into" a top. What they were most concerned about was whether or not they were doing a proper job. Let me tell you, honey, he's going to be so glad to be over your lap, any efforts you make in that regard will be appreciated.
Please feel free to email me at sarahspanks@yahoo.com if you have any specific questions.
Sarah
Thank you, Sarah!
I am particularly fascinated by her point that there are two stumbling blocks. First, the simple experience of the man being bottom up over his woman's lap, which some men will consider less than dignified; and second, the possibility that the pain of even a mild spanking will be more than he can stand. (Sarah suggests that the man may have a "more sensitive" bottom than his partner. Here I must disagree, I think the woman's bottom is probably just as sensitive as the man's, but she is able, somehow, to endure the pain better than he can.)
After the third Palm House party, Smartypanties wrote in. I was curious about what she would say because she once gave me a memorable paddling.
Hi Doc,
I was just visiting your website. I wanted to see if you posted any party details or pics from your Hallowe'en party (since I was unable to attend). Well, it was my lucky day cause you did, lol. The party sounded great and I'm sorry I missed it. You know how I just love to dress up. :)
Anyway, I came across "The query" from patty entitled "Topping a Top as a Bottom who wants to stay a Bottom". I've found your and Sarah's advice to be very informative. I was curious to see what you wrote. Mainly, because I've only topped two men and you were my first.
My experience has been mixed. You are the only true switch that I have come across (I have played with 3 switches) I say this because having topped you and having been spanked by you (although not in the same session) I've seen you switch roles rather easily. I've seen you getting spanked and in the submissive role and just as easily turn around and top someone with authority five minutes later. So, when a friend who was spanking me at the time asked me to spank him, I didn't think too much about it. What I learned is that even before I had spanked him, I questioned his topping authority (for lack of a better phrase). After I spanked him, he wanted to switch roles and spank me, but I couldn't do it. I was on too much of a top high. In fact, I wouldn't let him spank me ever again. He lost what little top authority he had with me..
Bottom line, I think your advice "Talk about it. Learn what you're each thinking about, what you're hoping to get from the role reversal, and what you're afraid of. In these conversations you will learn not only about your partner's wishes, but you will learn more about your own as well, for in expressing our own thoughts we understand them better." is the way to go.
Sarah also made some great points herself, one being "Keep in mind that a male top (there are exceptions!) may have a more sensitive bottom than the woman he spanks. Some guys were concerned about appearing wimpy if they couldn't take as hard a spanking as they dished out. One guy was concerned that his partner wouldn't see him as a big, strong masculine man once he'd been bare-bottomed over her lap, especially if he cried, but my opinion is that it takes a lot of courage for a man to ask for a spanking and submit to a woman."Personally, I would think that if the female "bottom" was getting spanked on a regular basis, she could probably take a pretty good spanking.
At some point the "top" wants to switch. He hasn't been getting spanked. As the female "bottom", I wouldn't give him a spanking that I could take. Whether he's a male or not.
Again, I think it's a good idea for the couple to talk it out. If the male top just wants to "try it" to see how it feels . . . I recommend Sarah! :)Take care,
Smartypanties
Thank you, Smartypanties!